The Silent Crisis: Why Child Sexual Abuse Impacts Every Community—And How We Can Change It
1 in 8 Children is sexually abused before reaching the age of 18. If you don’t think it impacts your community or business or congregation, you’re wrong.
Chirs Yadon and Saprea have a mission to empower survivors of child sex abuse, protect future generations, and educate communities worldwide on this critical issue.
Many of the societal issues that we deal with are rooted in childhood trauma, with sexual abuse being one of the big three.
66% of incarcerated women were sexually abused as children.
85% of female survivors of child sexual abuse will experience a diagnosable mental health disorder by age 30.
A little over a third of child sexual abuse survivors will have attempted a suicide by age 30.
But there is hope and healing available. Visit Saprea.com for tools and resources.
Allies he needs right now:
- Partners who have a community / audience to share the message and healing tools: companies for their employees and families, organizations that serve vulnerable populations, platforms that can help scale their reach
- And of course as a nonprofit, they always need donors
Podcast Transcript
00:00:00]
Jacob: As a parent, you worry about a lot of things for your child’s safety, don’t run with scissors. Be sure to look both ways before you cross the street, but the far more likely danger is actually sexual abuse. In the US alone, more than 1 million children will be sexually abused this year. And that feels crazy and scary and overwhelming as a parent. And my guest today is Chris Yadon of Saprea, and their mission is to empower survivors of child sex abuse, protect future generations, and educate communities worldwide on this critical issue. So I wanna learn personally how to protect my children, but also as impact leaders. What can we do to help? Chris, welcome.
Chris: Thank you. So good to be here. Grateful to talk about a very uncomfortable [00:01:00] topic, uncomfortable for many, but has become more comfortable for me over time as both a parent, grandparent, and as a change maker.
Jacob: You go and present about this around the world and speak about this topic often. Do people often have that reluctance? It’s obviously an uncomfortable topic. How do you tend to lead into this kind of conversation, or get people not to just close up? What tends to work in terms of broaching this conversation for people?
Chris: First of all, I love the question. Let me acknowledge something before I dive into that. The winds are changing, and they’re changing fast. In the short 10 years we’ve been around as an organization, I won’t say it’s comfortable for people today, but it’s night and day better than it was 10 years ago.
There’s a movement happening around child sexual abuse, both in our country as well as globally, where people are fed up and saying, enough’s enough, we’ve gotta talk about this. We’ve gotta embrace the awkward and just deal with it, and that [00:02:00] movement’s getting traction. So while I still want to acknowledge the awkwardness of the topic, I also want to acknowledge that there’s been significant progress.
This conversation that you and I here are having was much less likely 10 years ago. Meaning when I would say walk into a corporation seeking partnership with that corporation in whispered tones, they’d say, you know, what you’re doing is really important. Please keep doing it, but this is just a little too sensitive for us in the workplace. Now I go in, and people are like, This is hard; this is scary to think about. I don’t know how we can help, but how can we help?
There’s lots of answers to your question, but I’m going to just highlight one particular principle that’s really critical to social movement theory. Think of social movement theory as how big changes happen, as opposed to individual behavior change models, where I change. Social movement theory studies how society changes. One of the things that [00:03:00] drives change, particularly for something that’s taboo or uncomfortable or sensitive, is a principle called proximity. And that is we have to help individuals who have been impacted by the issue, talk about their experiences with their immediate communities. It’s fine to give them a mic to put ’em on a stage, those have their purposes as well. But what really shifts society around an issue is when someone feels proximate to that issue.
When my sibling says to me, You know, I’ve been impacted by that, and you’re like, What? Like, like you like my, my sibling? That experience happens to a lot of people. And the moment that happens, all of a sudden, the taboo lifts. I’m not saying it’s not hard, I’m not saying there’s still not shame or stigma, but the taboo lifts and people start engaging.
That’s one of many principles that drive change around sensitive topics and [00:04:00] how change movements happen around sensitive topics.
Jacob: That’s fascinating. This issue feels removed until. My neighbor, my cousin.
Yeah, one of the things that I really appreciate about your approach is just how research-based it is. I’m curious, what does the research say about the negative long-term impacts of sex abuse? So, of course it’s bad, we don’t want it, but what does the data actually tell us, how it shows up and manifests in people’s lives? What is that detrimental effect it is having on people?
Chris: Quick one-minute explanation of the science to make sense of the impacts. When we, as children, go through traumatic experiences, there’s a portion of our brain responsible for survival that takes over. That portion of the brain is not logical, does not think in terms of logic. It just wants to survive. So in its effort to survive, it does things that in the short term are protective for us. But in the long term, if we continue to do those things, [00:05:00] those things actually become harmful for us.
A good example would be avoidance. If I learn to avoid as a child something that’s hard or harmful, that’s protecting me from that harm. But if I perpetually learn to avoid, I no longer can connect with other people through relationships in the long run. That’s a very simple example. So with child sexual abuse, the lasting impacts are actually pretty diverse. And many of societal issues that we deal with are rooted in childhood trauma, with sexual abuse being one of the big three, not the only one. It joins things like physical abuse and neglect is kind of the big three.
Here’s a few stats that will highlight things: 66% of incarcerated women were sexually abused as children. That’s a corollary stat, correlations are not causation, but when you have corollaries that high, you have to pay attention to those connections. Okay, what happened there? Well, in order to [00:06:00] survive, that survivor connected, let’s say, with substances to numb the pain from their trauma. Those substances evolved into criminal activity that then landed them in the penal system. That would be an example of those lasting impacts.
There’s high correlation with mental health disorders; 85% of female survivors of child sexual abuse will experience a diagnosable mental health disorder by age 30. There’s a high correlation or connection to suicide. A little over a third of child sexual abuse survivors will have attempted suicide by age 30.
So these issues, these lasting impacts that show up in midlife, what’s happening is the trauma symptoms are taking their toll over time. Eventually, they have to be dealt with, and they can be dealt with through healthy mechanisms or things that are unhealthy or maladaptive. When we go down the [00:07:00] maladaptive route, that’s where we see some of those lasting impacts that you’re asking about.
Jacob: What hope is there for survivors of child sex abuse?
Chris: The great news is twofold. Let me go back to the prevention side, which you kind of mentioned early on. Hard things happen to kids, all kids, and not all of it’s sexual abuse, but hard things happen to all kids. We all go through traumatic experiences. If we can better equip parents to know how to parent their children through hard experiences, rather than just relying on the resilience card, the ‘kids are resilient’, that we often say. What’s actually happening there, is kids feign resilience. They’re really good at faking it, while the storm’s brewing inside.
If instead we can get parents to engage and learn, how do I help my kids as they go through traumatic experiences? The likelihood that these long-term impacts will be realized go way down. Because the long-term impacts are less about the traumatic [00:08:00] experience itself, as horrific as it is, and more about the aftermath of unresolved, unprocessed traumatic experiences, that’s where the damage is really done. So if we can intervene there, there’s a lot of hope there.
Second thing, for the adult who didn’t get that intervention, we have this amazing thing about our biology, and that is the neuroplasticity of the brain and its ability to change and learn and evolve. Because of that neuroplasticity, all of these trauma symptoms that are so invasive into a survivor’s life can be managed and mitigated. Healing is more about managing the trauma symptoms than eliminating them. But if we can reduce some trauma symptoms. and give survivors greater capabilities to manage ’em. When they do surface, it significantly changes their lives.
One of our interventions has been studied by third parties, a couple of third parties at this [00:09:00] point. We specifically measure post-traumatic stress symptom reduction and what’s called coping efficacy, or the ability to cope when something does surface, increases. And on average, after a 12-month period, post-intervention, the average person that comes through this particular program experiences a 37% decrease in post-traumatic stress symptoms and a 19% increase in coping efficacy. So, to your question, where’s the hope? When you reduce symptoms that much and increase coping efficacy that much, it turns into a measurable 45% increase in overall life satisfaction or wellbeing indicators. That is life-changing. That’s where the hope’s found.
Jacob: What does Saprea actually do to help survivors? You do a lot of different things, and maybe just walk us through what, on a practical level, does Saprea do.
Chris: We deliver our programming in a lot of [00:10:00] different ways, but it’s all based on the same premise, so I’ll focus on that premise. And that is, we are the wraparound for everything that individual therapy is not really equipped to do.
Individual therapy’s amazing, our team is filled with therapists, they’re very highly skilled. We’re big advocates of survivors using individual therapy. But for trauma, and this is well researched, it’s not just our perspective, for trauma, individual therapy alone usually is not sufficient to create the healing that survivors are after. They need other things that a lot of individual practitioners can’t do.
I’ll give you a couple of examples. Research continues to show that community and connection to that community is integral to healing from child sexual abuse. Most individual therapy is in a one-on-one setting. You might get some group therapy, but even in that group therapy, you’re not really creating those deep community connections. [00:11:00] So we provide services that create those community opportunities.
Another example would be somatic work, so think body work, because trauma is stored in both the brain and the cells of the body. You actually have to reengage your body and reintegrate your body with your brain in order to heal from sexual abuse. So we introduce a lot of body work in our programming and give them exposure to things like martial arts, yoga, mindfulness exercises, grounding exercises.
These are a few examples of what we mean by wraparound services. We deliver them in two major ways. We deliver ’em digitally so they can do it from the comfort of home or in a virtual group, and we deliver them in person, there’s certain things that are delivered in person as well.
Jacob: And those are your retreats that you do, you’re actually gathering people in a particular event space or something.
Chris: Yeah, our retreats we do in person in our workshops. So think of [00:12:00] workshops as half-day sessions. Really introductory, get someone started. Our retreats are four-day intensives, followed by nine weeks online. Then, in addition to that, we have our peer-led support groups, which can be done either in person, within a community, or done virtually or hybrid. We have ’em done all three ways. So several ways that people connect in person as well as virtually.
Jacob: Fantastic. Can you give some case studies, I mean even anonymized or what have you, of how this is working for people?
Chris: I’ll share one specific story of a woman named Fire, she’s given permission to share this. Fire was, as I recall, in her twenties when she came to our services, and here’s how she describes what happened prior to engaging with our services.
She had left her Christian community, she was part of a non-denominational Christian community. She’d been in a relationship that disintegrated. She had left school [00:13:00] and was really just struggling to get by day to day. Her exact words that she used to describe it is My life was hell. She engaged with our retreat program. Engaged with the learning there, and I wanna be really clear, people don’t heal in four days at retreat or even the nine weeks afterwards. What that program does is set them up to become stewards of their own healing, and Fire’s a perfect example of this. She latched on to what was taught to her at retreat and went to work and learned to practice the things that she was taught.
What happens as a result of that, we refer to as post-traumatic growth, which is almost an abnormally fast growth cycle that trauma survivors go through when they start removing some of these barriers. It’s like they’re so hungry, they’re so ready to learn and grow. They grow at an abnormally fast rate. So within a four-year period, she had reengaged in her faith community, back to those community [00:14:00] connections I mentioned. She had gone back to school and become a nurse and was practicing as a hospice nurse in her community.
So think about the impacts there. Not only to her, but her life. She had married and had just had her first baby. So you think about the before and after and the contrast, when we use statistics like 37% reduction post-traumatic stress, 19% increase in coping efficacy, and we say that creates a life change.
Fire is a perfect example of that life change.
Jacob: Wow. You’ve been at this for 10 years. What have you been able to accomplish in that time?
Chris: There’s a saying we have here, a good colleague of mine says, Pleased but never satisfied. We are thrilled with what’s happened over the last 10 years, but in the same breath, acknowledge that this is an enormous problem and we’re just barely scratching the surface.
So I’ll just share a couple [00:15:00] things. Over those 10 years, we’ve had 30,472 individuals participate in our in-person services. We’re talking, actually, in a seat, participating in our healing programs or prevention programs. Over that same period of time, we had a little over 13 million individuals from 231 countries and territories engage with our resources on our website. Beyond just visiting our website, actually engaging in healing or prevention resources. We’ve done a little research on that group and the respondents from that research, 90% of them, report that our content is actionable; they felt like they could take action as a result of the content.
You get a good contrast there in terms of some of our impact, both in-person and digitally. Our in-person services, so beyond just the web, have reached 42 countries and all 50 states. So that’s been in English, [00:16:00] Spanish, French, and German. We’ve had a little over 28,000 hours given by over 5,000 volunteers. So huge volunteer army going to work with us to make change. Three hundred and eight community partnerships in the first 10 years that
really emphasize our partnership model. We can’t do this alone. We’ll never solve this problem alone. We have to do it together. We’re better together. That comes out in our partnership approach. We’ve had little over 24,000 financial donors, that’s everything from a dollar to millions of dollars and everything in between. I could go on, but that gives you a taste of what’s happened over the last 10 years.
Jacob: Yeah. How is the organization set up? This is a traditional nonprofit. Or what’s the structure, and how does that work in terms of your financial model?
Chris: We’re a 501c3 public charity, so we’re a very traditional nonprofit. We rely on the public for our support. In our particular model, we were very fortunate to have [00:17:00] founders that were very dedicated financially and otherwise to our organization. That allowed us to get on our feet pretty quickly and get off and running. And that made a huge difference in our ability to. Focus on our programs and services and have immediate impact.
When we look at how we’re structured today, we have a rich heritage with a very solid foundation. We’ve been able to have measurable impact, and now we’re trying to scale. Which means we need support, we need participation, we need partnership far and wide. Child sexual abuse is a global problem. One in eight children globally are sexually abused by age 18, that carries over here in the United States. It affects every community, every workplace, every family in some way or another, every faith community. We need everybody to come to the table to help solve this issue. We’re not gonna do it alone. But we do have something that works, and that’s [00:18:00] scalable, and we’re working hard to structure our organization in a way that can maximize that scaling.
Jacob: Thank you. That, I’ve three different paths I want to take this conversation, but if we can answer some of these. I do want to touch on what can we as parents do to help protect our children and the children that we influence in our communities or at school, or neighborhoods, or church groups, or wherever. Maybe we’ll just let you run with that one. What can I do as a parent to help protect my kids? And what can people do on a preventative measure?
Chris: Let me share a story that’s tangential to child sexual abuse, a story from my own kids that will help answer that question.
So about 18 years ago, my wife Christie and I we were at a parenting conference. The parenting conference wasn’t about sexual abuse or anything sexual, but the presenter said something really interesting, almost like a side note. He cited some statistics of when children are first [00:19:00] exposed to sexually explicit content. And he said, Mom and dad, if you want to get to your kids first about sex, you better talk to them by age eight, because the research shows somewhere between 9 and 11, they’re gonna get exposed to sexual content. And I remember the pit in my stomach in that moment, ’cause my oldest was eight, right? So, first child, we call ’em the burnt waffle for a reason. This speaker just shared some data. I went and dug into the data, validated it, and I was like, oh crap. Really? I’m not ready for this conversation.
And that moment as parents to say, Hey, yeah, we do want to be the first ones that talk to them about sex, we don’t want him to learn the way I learned through jokes or locker room banter or all the friends and all the misinformation that comes through that. We wanted to do it differently. It set something off on us.
The issue of child sexual abuse and preventing is very similar. Parents. It’s an uncomfortable [00:20:00] topic, but you have to dig in. Your child is at risk. I don’t care where you live. I don’t care how safe you think your neighborhood is or your family, your child is at risk. It happens everywhere, and it happens to everybody. You have to dig in. You have to dig into the discomfort. We always use the term embrace the awkward. You have to embrace the awkward. That’s the first principle I always say to parents. Embrace the awkward.
Second, get educated. This is where Saprea can help. We have great resources around education for prevention, right on our website. Spend some time on there. You have to learn the principles more than the tactics. Parents love tactics. They’re like, no, tell me what to do, A plus B, equal C, we’re good. I can check it off my list and move on. That’s not how sexual abuse works. Those that perpetrate sexual abuse change their tactics so regularly, so frequently, you cannot keep up with the way it’s changing.
For example, a year ago or a year and a half ago, we weren’t worried about AI-generated sexual [00:21:00] abuse through AI-generated materials. Today we are. That’s a tactic that’s changed that criminals are using. Parents have to learn the principles, there’s five. We don’t have time to go on all five today, but there’s five specific principles that reduce risk. And once you use those principles, you have to start purposefully practicing the principles.
Embrace the awkward, learn the principles. Third thing, you have to purposely start practicing the principles, and it’s gonna feel awkward and weird and challenging at first. And your kids are gonna roll their eyes, and the hair on the back of your neck’s gonna stand up. Like, what am I doing? You have to practice it.
If you’ll do those three things, embrace the awkward, learn the principles through education, and then practice. You’ll find that your prevention efforts as a parent become reflexive. They’ll become very natural and actually very comfortable.
My kids still roll their eyes when I talk to ’em about child sexual abuse or whatever. But it’s [00:22:00] not a horrific conversation for them. It’s in the normal flow of everyday life for us. We talk about boundaries, we talk about sex, we talk about grooming. They recognize it at this point, and they bring it up to me. It’s not always me bringing it up to them. It’s become reflexive in our family. That’s what prevention looks like. That’s how we reduce the risk.
Last thing I’ll highlight on this topic is risk reduction is not risk elimination. And we have to accept that and absorb what that means. The only way to eliminate risk is bubble wrap your kids, and the health outcomes of doing that are horrific. So don’t do that. This is about risk reduction. Let’s not be paranoid about it. Let’s be smart about it and follow those steps that I outlined.
Jacob: Not to be reductive, ’cause I think all those things are fantastic, we always want the shortcut and the silver bullet, and there isn’t. Do you find, though, is there one thing that [00:23:00] If parents just cut out this one thing, on your soapbox or in your research, is there anything that rises to the top?
Chris: It is the first principle, which we call assess risky situations and practice navigating them. That’s the first of the five principles. If parents will just learn what the risks are and learn how to assess the risks, the rest of it’s pretty intuitive. Don’t get me wrong, I still like our education around the other four principles, but parents almost will do it naturally, because we want to protect our kids. We’re very intuitive about how to protect our kids when we assess risks. But so many parents inadvertently put their children in high-risk situations because they don’t understand what the risks are.
I’ll give you one example of a risk. Anytime we put our child in the charge of an adult, and that adult has one-on-one connection with our child and has a power dynamic over our [00:24:00] child. That is a high-risk situation. It’s high risk, very unlikely the child will disclose something if something’s going on. We’ve put that person in charge, they have one-on-one time with our child either digitally or in person. High-risk situation. That would be one simple example. So if you can learn those types of risks, you solve a big part of the prevention problem.
Jacob: Help me complete this statement: if we only had X, we could accomplish Y. What is the big goal vision that you’re trying to accomplish, and what’s the hurdle that you’re facing to get there?
Chris: Wow. I could fill in those blanks with so many, so many things. I wish it was only one thing. Right? Let me choose this one, because I think it is in the order of operation, probably the one I would pick first. If we only had survivors that felt safe enough to talk about their experience, [00:25:00] then every American would be moving heaven and Earth to change this. We’d have the funding we needed, we’d have the awareness we needed. We’d have the media coverage we needed. We’d have the million podcasts that we need to be on to talk about it.
It’s back to that proximity principle and what we refer to as survivor-led prevention. Most big, ugly issues in our country have been solved when those impacted start talking about it. Now we can talk about all the reasons survivors don’t feel safe to talk about it, and what we can do to create that environment, that’s a different discussion. But, that’s the pivot point, in my opinion, that we need to shift.
Let me give you an example from a different movement. Let’s take breast cancer. When I was a kid, cancer generally wasn’t as openly discussed as it is today. And certainly, breast cancer was not openly discussed. Today, breast cancer is very openly discussed in all [00:26:00] sorts of environment, workplaces, faith settings, families, right? What changed that? What changed it is breast cancer survivors willing to talk about their experiences and disclose what they were going through with their immediate communities. I’m not talking about, yes, they need to be on the news, give them a microphone on a stage that helps, too. But it was talking about it within their family that changed the narrative.
I mean, think about all the people you know and love that have experienced or are experiencing breast cancer. The fact that you know it, makes it approximate issue to you or to me, who’s not a breast cancer survivor. So why do I care about breast cancer? Because people I love have gone through it.
The same thing needs to happen with child sexual abuse. People I love have been through it. People you love have been through it. People that, everybody that listens to this, people that they love, have been through it. They may not know it because the people aren’t willing to talk about it. And that’s what keeps [00:27:00] it hidden, keeps it under the rug, if you will, and keeps us from having a broad societal shift.
Jacob: Yeah, Problems fester in the dark, and light dispels that.
Thank you.. There’s a lot we could dig into as far as like how to make a safe space, or what can we do to be allies to make it more possible, and to listen and to believe people when they share.
I do wanna be sure that we talk about what are the allies that you most need right now? In reaching out to the broader impact community, globally, or what have you. There’s all sorts of individuals or organizations that might benefit you, but what are those most important for your success, to be able to scale your efforts?
Chris: So I wouldn’t be a nonprofit if I didn’t give a quick shout-out to donors first. No Money No Mission, but that’s not the answer I’m gonna give you. I’m getting an and one in that.
Now let me give you [00:28:00] the answer I’m gonna give you. So, donors, we need you. But the answer I want to give you is I mentioned those 308 partners in our first 10 years. We need to scale that in significant ways. Let me give you a use case to tell you why that matters.
So we formed a partnership late last year with a group called Edovo. Edovo provides tablets in prison systems across the country that has various learning capabilities. So wellness topics, educational topics, skill improvement topics, so individuals who are incarcerated use these tablets and go through courses. They can complete these courses and be tested on these courses, and as they do that, they’re able to improve their position with their parole boards in addition to gaining key skills, right? Win-win. Awesome thing.
Okay. So knowing that there are many survivors of child sexual abuse in the prison systems, we partnered with them and modified some of our [00:29:00] curriculum as a partner to their platform. We launched it on December 2nd of 2024. So, what are we four months in, five months in, four months in? Let me share with you what’s happened. In those four months, we have had 6,921 women complete all 10 modules. Just think about that 6,921 women complete all those modules. We’ve had 16,339 women complete at least one module in four months.
That’s the power of partners. We can’t scale by ourselves. We need people that have reach. Those partners are sometimes a corporation doing a lunch and learn, willing to let us teach their employees how to protect their kids. Those partners can be a group like Edovo that have a platform to put us on. They could be a program partner where they want to utilize our resources to enhance something they’re already doing, where it’s [00:30:00] complimentary.
But those partnerships are critical to scaling. I mentioned earlier where we sit as an organization today, we have stuff that works. We need to scale it the way we’re gonna scale it as partners. So partnerships is my answer to your question, with the asterisk of donors always being there.
Jacob: And an ideal donor, they have a platform or they have an audience that you can reach, and it’s one-to-many. And the examples of some of those, corporations or other nonprofits, or associations. Are there any others that someone might not think that they could be a partner, that are like, oh, well, actually maybe, maybe we should? How do they know that they’re a right fit?
Chris: If we use the example of Adobe right behind me, right in the building, right, straight behind me. They included us in their day of service that created a bunch of engagement with their employees. Right? They, as a corporation, may naturally think, Oh, we can do a lot with nonprofits. Is this [00:31:00] issue really relevant to our employees?
What they found is it was absolutely relevant to their employees. They had high participation from their employees in that day of service with us, which also created a lot of giving opportunities for their employees. So the corporation that thinks, Is child sexual abuse relevant to my staff, my employees? Listen, if you employ parents, I’ll be broader; if you employ human beings, our topic is relevant.
So bridging that one would be one that I would highlight. I’d say another one I’d highlight are other nonprofit partners. Edovo is an example is a nonprofit. We’re both better together, right? We found a win-win in enhancing their platform, improving their product for prison systems and jails. And it’s scaled reach for us.
Another good example here locally in our state would be the other side [00:32:00] village. We’ve done programming with the groups they’re working on to elevate out of homelessness. So those are key partners as well.
Jacob: Fascinating. I mean, we could talk for another hour.
But any last words before we wrap this up? Last plug or thing that you feel like people need to hear before we go?
Chris: I wasn’t there, but I imagine civil rights leaders sitting in a room. Talking about this mountain they have to climb and doubting whether they were ever gonna have impact. I just have that image in my mind. And they’re like, the drops were dropping in. Yeah, they feel good, but this problem’s so big we’ll never solve it. And to their point, you know, racial equity is still a problem we’re working to solve. But think about the mountains they climbed when they work together to change an issue.
I believe in our country, I believe in our world, I believe in [00:33:00] humanity, that we have the ability to make things better for the next generation. I believe that comes when we choose to work together on issues. Child sexual abuse is an issue that impacts all of us and, therefore, is an issue we have to work on collectively.
So, my parting thoughts, my parting shot, if you will, is it’s our time to solve this issue. We have the resources, we have the tools. It is big, it is ugly. It penetrates every nook and cranny of our world and our lives, but we have what we need to solve this problem if we come together collectively to do it. And I believe that we will. I believe we’re already starting to see that momentum, so don’t wake up 30 years from now having listened to this podcast, thinking I had a chance to jump in and I didn’t. Jump in with us. We’re ready to go. Let’s do something good together and let’s change our society for the better [00:34:00] for our kids and our grandkids.
Jacob: Thank you.
Chris: Thank you.
Jacob: And God bless you and the work that you do, and let’s do what we can to shift mindsets and people and capital, your way to climb that mountain. So thank you..
Chris: I am for it.
Jacob: Awesome.
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